What're Your Oppopinions on Autonomous Cars? (Contains hot take)

"way2blu does a rev update" (way2blu) 05/10/2018 at 19:24 • Filed to: Self Driving Cars, Oppopinion time

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Would they even be interesting if modern cars were more engaging rather than isolating? I think the industry hype has got it backwards: make driving fun and distracted driving incidents will become less of an issue. Let’s discuss!

My opinion centers around these points:

Distracted driving is promoted, not only by phone use, but also by the soul-drainingly boring vehicles on sale today. From NVH isolation to numb steering and suspension, driving becomes a chore and people seek to escape from the moment.

Autonomous car hype is fed in part by public desire to legalize this distracted driving and make it safe.

A fully-autonomous future is, for liability reasons, the only “zero-death” possibility.

If manufacturers made more properly engaging, driver-focused vehicles (the tech certainly exists to do so) then we’d see more car enthusiasts and safer roads due to less distraction behind the wheel.

And, finally, the hot take of the day:

The freedom to drive one’s own car and be in full control is an even more important debate than that of the 2nd Amendment.

I’d like to hear all your thoughts on this. Should manufacturers re-invest in engaging cars? Can we save the manuals in the name of safety?

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > way2blu does a rev update 05/10/2018 at 19:34

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Well at the very least, I think there should be some sort of protocol for having the cars see pedestrians. Like have phones communicate or start implementing a system like the detectors used for avalanche recovery. Sorry this wasn’t entirely relevant, just a thought that I have had for a few weeks

facw > way2blu does a rev update 05/10/2018 at 19:38

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I think you are very wrong. Essentially what you are saying is that you want to make your hobby mandatory for everyone. Most people just want to get from A to B quickly, safely, and cheaply. That is what is important. It’s great if someone can enjoy driving, but you are never going to make it so fun for everyone that they will be engaged. Different people enjoy different things.

My opinion is that self-driving cars can’t get here fast enough. They hold the promise to save lives, reduce traffic (or more likely increase the carrying capacity of our roads), and be better for the environment than most human driven cars.

That said, human driven cars will be with us for a long time. I don’t think it’s impossible that within 20 years we could see some roads that are only open to autonomous vehicles, but I can’t imagine the whole thing being ready to switch over anywhere near then. Indeed a ban may never happen, while it would be easier to have a homogeneous road system, we still share roads with bicycles, horses, tractors, and all manner of other weird things, so even if human-driven cars dwindle, they probably just become another special case (and one that autonomous cars should be well versed with dealing with).

AestheticsInMotion > way2blu does a rev update 05/10/2018 at 19:40

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I can have fun with my manual transmission, no fancy safety tech having sportscar in bumper to bumper traffic in the heart of a big city.

But... Most people don’t think of driving as a “fun” thing and I don’t think that would change regardless of what they were driving. Put them in an old MG and it’s “unsafe, cramped”. Viper? “too loud, plasticky”. They want to be isolated and do as little as possible. I’d like to believe otherwise, but I don’t think that there is a closet auto-enthusiast inside everyone waiting to be given the proper stimulus...

NKato > way2blu does a rev update 05/10/2018 at 19:46

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I’m going to PIT an autonomous car if it does something stupid. Don’t convince me otherwise.

ranwhenparked > way2blu does a rev update 05/10/2018 at 19:48

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I think they’re going to be great for enabling elderly people to stay in their homes and remain mobile and independent after they are no longer able to drive themselves; along with people that are either physically disabled or have seizure disorders and whatnot that prevent them from driving safely. Also beneficial for frequent DUI offenders that can no longer be trusted with driving, but still need transportation so they can continue to work and not become a drain on society or deadbeat parent.

Urambo Tauro > way2blu does a rev update 05/10/2018 at 20:14

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I think it’s very cool what automakers have managed to accomplish so far. But I also think that a driver’s duties are ultimately too complex for full autonomy to be possible in the real world. It’s amusing to watch them try, though.

Tekamul > ranwhenparked 05/10/2018 at 20:19

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I know this comes from a good place, but that is actually bad for the elderly. Decreasing capabilities lead to isolation which accelerates dimensia.

The point about the differently abled is valid though. As for DUI offenders, that goes right into the worst type of enablement.

Tekamul > way2blu does a rev update 05/10/2018 at 20:24

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I agree on all counts.

One thing that is becoming more obvious as more development is done, is that anything beyond ‘fancy cruise control’ is either prohibitively expensive, or requires a homogenous environment, that is, autonomous vehicles only, so peer-to-peer communication can fill in the gaps.

The fancy cruise control is marginally safer, but could be surpassed with attentive drivers.

ranwhenparked > Tekamul 05/10/2018 at 20:50

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No, its fantastic. Right now, if they live in the suburbs and want to stay in their neighborhood, close to their friends and family, in the house they love; but can no longer drive, they’re either at the mercy of others to come and get them when available, waiting around for a transit van to come on its own schedule, or they become shut ins. Or, they give it up and move into a nursing home. Autonomous cars will basically allow them to maintain their old lifestyle for much longer than currently possible.

Chariotoflove > way2blu does a rev update 05/10/2018 at 20:55

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Most people don’t want their car to be engaging. They want it to be easy. So maybe we should make them more engaging, and more people will take mass transit. Fewer people in cars means fewer accidents.

Maxima Speed > way2blu does a rev update 05/10/2018 at 21:39

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I agree and have long held to all of your points except the hot take. I’m not going to try to turn this away from autonomous cars but the 2nd amendment ensures the security of all the others.

Tekamul > ranwhenparked 05/10/2018 at 22:19

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I don’t think you’ve been around a lot of old people. Or at least not old people of average means.

They aren’t holding onto long time homes for long after moving to a fixed income. They definitely aren’t maintaining financial independence after shelling out for a luxury vehicle.

Seniors in well planned ’whole town’ retirement communities maintain faculties far longer than typical.

ranwhenparked > Tekamul 05/10/2018 at 22:45

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Oh yes, we went through exactly this with my father’s mother and are dealing with it with my mother’s mother right now.

87 years old, and her mind is as sharp as its ever been, but her muscle strength, eyesight, and balance are all shot and she is completely unsafe to drive. But, she still does, because she lives in a gated community out in the suburbs and you need a car to get everywhere, and her closest family are 1200 miles away (well, technically, my brother is only about 200 miles away, but, still, not around the corner). She loves where she lives, loves her house, and won’t listen to any suggestions that she consider going anywhere else. And, of course, she’s an adult with strong opinions and has every right to live how she wants, but something is going to have to give sooner or later.

There are others in her situation in her neighborhood and, I’m sure, surrounding neighborhoods. And we went through something very similar with my other grandmother. By the time we finally got her into a retirement home, it was really almost too late. But, she didn’t want to live in one, and wanted to keep her 5 bedroom house in the burbs, even though she had pretty much given up driving completely for several years by the time she moved out and was reliant on delivery services and relatives dropping by.

Anyway, a lot of the seniors that get into these situations are ones that downsize to “active lifestyle” communities. These are the ones that are still single family houses in cul-de-sacs, just smaller than what they had before, and with lawn maintenance covered. These communities are perfectly fine as long as they remain relatively healthy and functional, but, when they start really going downhill, there just isn’t the infrastructure there to support them properly, unless they move again into a retirement home, which many of them just don’t want to do.

I really don’t understand how you can’t be aware of these sorts of things happening. There are LOTS of elderly all over the country that can’t or shouldn’t be driving anymore, live in situations where driving is pretty much mandatory, and can’t or won’t move anywhere else. For them, autonomous cars will be a godsend.

On a bit more subtle level, the first trouble with driving is often night vision. Think about the ones out there that are still perfectly fine during the day, but are always fearful of getting stuck in traffic if they stay out anywhere too late because they just can’t see well enough when it starts getting dark out. An autonomous car would take that worry away and let them live their lives normally again.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > way2blu does a rev update 05/10/2018 at 23:35

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my biggest concern is if autonomous cars are released are people just going to move 1 hour from their job and just result in massive suburban sprawl as people can just zone out. Thus rural roads clogged with cars commuting 1 hours away. And then the suburban real estate collapse.

I love driving, but on the other end of the spectrum, it would be awesome to be able to go out on a friday night and safely get home without having to get an uber or cab. .

Long-Voyager > way2blu does a rev update 05/11/2018 at 04:51

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I can tell you this:

When I was driving this daily:

I was extremely attentive and aware of my surroundings (I was also very comfortable, in case you were wondering). Much the same goes for my old Voyager and Acclaim as neither have any driver assists.

When I jump in a new car with all the new “safety” tech, I find myself zoning out. I can guarantee I am far more likely to be in a crash in a new car than I ever would in any of my vehicles.

To that I say: What’s safer, being in an older car and avoiding crashes by being attentive/focused, or crashing in a new car?

way2blu does a rev update > AestheticsInMotion 05/11/2018 at 19:33

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I wouldn’t say it’s everyone that’s a potential enthusiast, but that we certainly could do better in making enthusiasm accessible these days.

Compare an E46 BMW to any modern 3 series, and it’s already massively more fun to drive the former. New cars are making things worse for potential enthusiasts out there.

way2blu does a rev update > Maxima Speed 05/11/2018 at 19:36

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The hot take really kind of is meant to say that both the 2nd amendment and freedom to be mobile go kind of hand in hand. I just think we might hear even more debate over freedom to drive in the future at some point. I do agree though with your point too.

way2blu does a rev update > facw 05/11/2018 at 19:40

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I guess I could have clarified in my initial opinion, that while not everyone is destined to be an enthusiast, manufacturers could be doing a much better job making enthusiasm acceptable.

I like the points you’ve brought up. Realistically, autonomous cars could happen alongside human drivers more easily if driving education was improved alongside them. The “good driver” types will choose to drive while the ones who’d be zoned out anyway can take a RoboUber.